Office Ladies - Second Drink: Business School

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

This week we're breaking down Business School. We reached out to writer Brent Forrester, to get his memories about this episode and what it was like working with director Joss Whedon (Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Avengers). Then we dig into everything you want to know about filming those hilarious scenes with Michael at Ryan's business school, and we get some amazing insights from Brent about what went into picking Pam's watercolor paintings for her art show. Finally, we hear from Kate Flannery herself, who gives us the scoop on everything we want to know about that scene with Meredith, Dwight and that bat, and Jenna recounts her memories of shooting that really touching Pam and Michael scene.  Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion  Follow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPod Follow Us on YouTube Follow Us on TikTok To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. where's your playlist taking you down the highway to the mountains or just into daydream mode while you're stuck in traffic with over 4,000 hotels worldwide best western is there to help you make the

most of your getaway wherever that is because the only thing better than a great playlist is a great trip life's the trip make the most of it at best western and save at bestwestern.com. Welcome to the second drink of business school. This episode made Dave Rogers' top 10 superfan episode list. So if you loved the original, you're going to have to check it out on Peacock. Well, this is one of my favorite episodes. I know we say that a lot, but I do truly love this episode.

You do. I do, too. And our breakdown of it, lady, is so good if I do say so myself. We have writer Brent Forster sharing his memories of writing and filming business school. And we hear from Kate Flannery, who gives us the scoop on that whole Dwight Meredith and the bat scene. Amazing. This episode also has one of my favorite Dwight quotes in the entire series. I know which one it is. It's the idiot one. It is when I make videos for people for their birthdays and graduations. I always quote him. And I know we talked

about it in our breakdown, but we didn't play it. I want to hear it. All right. What's the most inspiring thing I ever said to you? Don't be an idiot. Changed my life. Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, would an idiot do that? And if they would, I do not do that thing. I love it so much. I mean, it's really, really good life advice.

It's very simple, right? Don't be an idiot. I mean, lady, I love it. This is why I use this advice in my graduation videos to people. I think if you're a young person, you're going off to college. going off to college, you're going to be presented with a lot of scenarios, a lot of choices. Yeah. And I think you pause and you ask yourself, would an idiot do that thing?

And if the answer is yes, then do not do that thing. I think it's great. It really is simple and gets to the point. Well, I know how much you love that talking head. And I was curious if there was a candy bag alt for it. I couldn't find any. I think that was it. But lady, here's what I learned.

So Michael Scott has a talking head in the cold open, and that was actually the candy bag alt, not the one in the actual shooting draft. Here's what's going on. Remember, Ryan is saying he's going to be bringing his boss to his class because his teacher said it automatically bumps you up to a full letter grade. So Ryan's like, I'd be stupid not to, right? And then Michael has a talking head where he says that a boss is like a teacher, like a cool teacher, like his teacher, Mr. Handel, and he goes on for a little bit. That was the candy bag alt.

But the scripted one lady cracked me up and it made me think of you. What? You'll see why. Here's what Michael would have said in the shooting draft. Ultimately, I went into business to inspire people. They say that those who can't do teach. I can do both. I teach doing. Because you like to say we're going to do Game of Thrones, we're going to do this. You like doing. I do like doing. It just made me think of you. Well, like Angela mentioned before, we have a lot of really great behind-the-scenes bat details on how we film the shots with Meredith.

And a lot of you wanted to know if we had to react to a real bat flying around the office. And we did not. But are you ready for this? A few folks rode in to tell us that they have had an experience like this. In their office, like a bat flying around? Yes. Kelly R. shared with us. Rewatching this episode gave me flashbacks of the time I was working alone in my office late at night during a thunderstorm and a bat started swooping at my head.

I was on a tight deadline so I had to dodge the bat for an hour while I tried to. to continue working. An hour? The bat was like dive bombing? Oh my gosh. I'd be out. Kelly, I'd be out. Kelly, why not leave? She had a deadline. I guess so. And since we are on the subject of bats, remember Jim's prank where he acts like he got bit by the bat? And Dwight says Jim might not turn into a vampire but just have like vampiric jeans. Yes. Well, I wanted to share the candy bag alt for that Dwight talking head because it really made me chuckle. Dwight says, Vampire bats tend to migrate to the Slovenia's, Transylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, the Slovenia Learning Centers, probably.

That's very funny. So they had it coming. They were in Pennsylvania. This was bound to happen. Oh, I love it. Well, listen, before we go, just a quick reminder that the first four episodes of the paper come out September 4th, and we are going to be talking about the pilot episode next week on Office Lady 6.0.

It's so good. It was so fun to revisit the office universe. Ah, I loved it. And now here is the second drink of business school. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together. And we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office rewatch podcast just for you. Each week we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're the office ladies. Hello, everyone. Hey, we are going to business school today. Oh, you guys, it's going to be so fun.

We might get our frizz on. I wouldn't know anything about that. You're going to know everything about it because you and I have a fronthing date. I can't wait to fronf with you. I'm going to chunk it at you, lady. Oh, boy. Guys, this is season three, episode 16, written by Brent, and directed by Joss Whedon.

I'm going to hit you with a summary. Do it. I wrote my summary really succinct today. Oh, it's so succinct that you had to call it out. I did. Hey, guys, get ready for some succinct summary. Ooh, say that five times fast. Ryan brings Michael to be a guest speaker at his business school.

A bat causes mayhem at the office. Jim pretends to be turning into Dracula to prank Dwight. Pam shows her art at an art exhibition. It sounds so simple, right? Four simple sentences, and yet it is not simple at all. It's simple, but there's so much. I have one little thing to add. Brent says in the DVD commentary, he was handed two cards off the wall.

You know, we've talked about how on the wall the writers have all these cards. Yeah. He was just handed two three by five cards. One said business school and the other said bat in the office. Well, look at that. A succinct note card give to go along with my succinct summary. And I guess business school was Greg's idea. He always knew at some point down the road he wanted to go to Ryan's business school.

And I guess that card had been on the wall for a while. Well, Angela, speaking of bat storylines, fast fact number one, Joss Whedon directed this episode. So Joss is famous for creating Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the series starring Sarah Michelle Geller. This was a huge hit on the WB Network, which was run at the time by Suzanne Daniels. Suzanne's husband is Greg Daniels. And that is how Joss kind of got his in to direct an episode of the show. But I guess it is just a pure coincidence that he got assigned the episode with a bat and a vampire storyline. I remember he was like, come on, guys, you gave me the bat vampire story.

And we were like, and everyone was like, it is pure coincidence. Well, guys, we reached out to writer Brent Forrester. Remember, he sent in so many amazing audio clips for our grief counseling episode. He did it again this week. And here's what he had to say about this. This episode was directed by Joss Whedon, who was a big, successful television creator at the time and happened to be a big fan of the office. And he approached us asking if he could direct an episode. He ended up directing two.

And this was the first one that he did. And it's just a total coincidence that the first episode that he directed happens to have a vampire subplot in it and he was the creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. What you notice in that vampire subplot that I remember most is this visual detail that Joss added that was not in the script. If you notice at the end of the Jim Dwight vampire subplot, Jim says goodbye and leaves the office at the end of the day. And what he does, he turns and he flips up his collar and sort of looks over his shoulder.

And it's the perfect image of Dracula looking over the corner of his cape. And it just works wonderfully as a visual gag, not in the script, totally the contribution of a guy who has worked a long time in the vampire genre. That was pure Joss Whedon. I did not know that. I didn't know it either. And you remember at this time, because I asked Kent Sabornack about this as well, he said that after season two, after we won the Emmy, we had a bunch of directors reaching out about directing our show. Remember like Harold Ramos, J.J. Abrams? Jason Wrightman? Yes. So crazy. And Kent would just assign scripts according to director availability. And that is, he confirms how Joss got this episode. So now, fast fact number two, location breakdown with Kentopedia.

Ooh, we need a jingle for Location Breakdown with Kentopedia. Location Breakdown with Kentopedia. Do you like it? That's okay. I was trying to do like a schoolhouse rock thing. Yeah, I like it. Okay. Okay, location breakdown with Kentapedia, is this about North Ridge?

Yes. We had a fan question, B. Smith, Major Tarwater. Julia Lee, Megan Meeker, Rose Cosette, and Tess Schmidt, where were the business school scenes shot in real life? Was it a real classroom on a campus? Were those real students or were they actors? Well, as Angela said, Ryan's Business School and the scenes with Pam's Art School were all shot at Cal State Northridge. How did you know it was Cal State Northridge, Ang? Because I listened to the DVD commentary. Oh, y'all's. Well, Kent said all of the students in the classroom were hired extras, that we used a total of 122 background actors that day for the classroom scenes

and the exterior campus scenes. He said that the business school and the exterior scenes were filmed on day one, and on day two, we filmed the scenes for Pam's art show, which was held in the Cal State Northridge Design Center. One of the things I liked that they talked about in the DVD commentary was Brent said they asked all the people playing students, if they would please bring their own personal laptop. Oh. And when I watched the scene, Jenna, I noticed that all the laptops were different. That is such a good detail. All right. Fast fact number three. Yeah. Nine days after this episode aired, Rain Wilson hosted Saturday Night Live. Oh, you remember this? Yes. We were so excited for him. So we had to kind of move around our shooting schedule to make this

happened for rain, and I just remember we were all so excited for him. And during his opening monologue, he did this bit. It's so funny where he says, oh, he's just so excited to be at Saturday Night Live because it's just way more exciting than shooting the office, which is basically just sitting at a desk on our fluorescent lights all day. He was like, on the set of S&L, there's like scaffolding and there's props and there's costumes and wigs, you know, it feels like a real show. And he's like, let me show you. Let me show you. And he takes the audience on like this backstage tour to show how exciting it is only to find the cast of Saturday Night Live kind of dressed up doing impersonations of all of our characters from the office. Yes. Well, Kristen Wig is Pam

and she's answering phones. Yes. And he's like, hey Kristen. And she's like, S&L. Hi, can I help you? She was like, I'm just answering phones. And he's like, what are you doing? She's like, I do this all the time. I do a lot of things. He's like, don't you do anything else? And she's like, well, I also like to paint. And then she holds up a watercolor painting of 30 Rockefeller Center.

That's where they film S&L. And that is a callback to this episode that had just aired of Pam's watercolor of Dunder Mifflin. And I was freaking out excited when I saw it. Amy Poehler played me. Oh, it's so funny. And, like, had this, like, sort of, like, snarl and, like, kind of flirted with Rain as Dwight. And if you remember, Jenna, Rashida was there that weekend, and she's friends with a lot of the S&L cast members. So they were, like, just hop in as Karen.

So she did. He walks down the hole. Yeah. And they took all these pictures, and Rashida emailed them to me. She was like, Anne, look, it's Amy as you. And I have all of these great pictures of them from the set that day. Amazing. Are you going to put those on the pod?

On office ladies' pot? Yes, I'll put one. I have a great one. I think I have a group shot. I'll put on the pod. Well, listen to what Kristen Wigg did after that episode aired. What? So she and I shared a manager, and we'd met a few times.

We were both really struggling actresses at the same time. And kind of when I got on the office, she got on Saturday Night Live. So this was really thrilling to us. I get a package in the mail. It is the watercolor. Oh, come on. That she held up on the show. she signed the back of it, and then she wrote me the nicest note that was just like, I just know what it would mean to me if I were ever parodied on this television show. And I thought you might like to have a prop from the moment. So I asked if I could send this to you and they said yes. That is so lovely. Yeah, and I have it framed and it's in my family room. That is so great, Jenna. I never knew that. I've been in your family room a gazillion times.

Yeah, it's up on the shelf with the Simpsons cartoon that Greg made of us. There's like my two treasured items. I'm going to look for it next time I'm at your house. She's the best, guys. That is so sweet. Well, listen, that's all I got. I think we should go to a break and then we'll come back and talk all about business school with a bunch of great audio clips from Brent and a little special surprise from Kate Flannery.

Yes. We'll see you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, sometimes we turn to some funny places for support, maybe a hairdresser, a barista, maybe a random stranger in the bathroom for life advice, but not everyone is a therapist. You can find your right match with BetterHelp. BetterHelp therapists are clinically trained and credentialed. They work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the use.

U.S. And BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you, so you can focus on your therapy goals. You'll get a short questionnaire that helps identify your needs and preferences, and then they will match you with a licensed therapist. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash office ladies. That's betterhelp help.com slash office ladies. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, sometimes we turn to some funny places for support, maybe a hairdresser, a barista, maybe a random stranger in the bathroom

for life advice, but not everyone is a therapist. You can find your right match with BetterHelp. Better Help therapists are clinically trained and credentialed. They work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S. And BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you, so you can focus on your therapy goals. You'll get a short questionnaire that helps identify your needs and preferences, and then they will match you with a licensed therapist. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to

mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash office ladies. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash office ladies. Okay, we are back and let's get into this episode. You guys, we start with Kevin arriving a little late to work. And he says he almost died because his tire blew out.

Michael doesn't care. He doesn't care. He just keeps saying, why is today a special day? And Jenna, when he said, pop quiz, all I could think about was Keanu Reeves. Why? Because of speed. Oh, yeah. Pop quiz, asshole.

You have a hair trigger aimed at your head. What do you do? What do you do? When's the last time you watched this movie? Three days ago. Well, I see now why you made the connection. I know. I'm really sad Michael didn't do a Keanu Reeves impression in this moment.

Oh, well, that's a missed opportunity. I know. That would have been full circle for me. It would have made me very happy. But yeah. I remember shooting this scene. Yeah. And here's my problem.

Whenever they would put Brian Baumgartner by reception to do anything Kevin, especially Kevin with like hurt feelings. I can't keep it together. I can't look at him when he is doing sad Kevin. I can't. So funny. Well, Michael's excited because he gets to go to Ryan's business school. And he's so happy.

And we have a Ryan talking head where he's like, look, I get to go up a whole letter grade if I bring my boss in. I should. Yeah. I should do it. Right? No. No, you shouldn't, Ryan. Yeah.

Well, we're going to see maybe no, you shouldn't. But Michael is just thrilled. We have a scene where Dwight is helping him pack. And this leads us to one of my favorite Dwight talking heads, which is a famous talking head. It is one of my favorite. My kids love this talking head so much, Jenna. Michael's asking him, what is the best advice I ever gave you? And Dwight's like, the best advice you ever gave me, Michael, is don't be an idiot.

It changed my life. And then it cuts to this famous, amazing talking head where Dwight looks at Cameron says, whenever I'm about to do something, I think, would an idiot do that? And if they would, I do not do that thing. I love it. I just wrote out a birthday card to a young woman who, was turning 21, and I put this in her card. I said, listen, that's brilliant.

As you move on to this next phase of adulthood, remember these wise words from Dwight Shrewd. Yes, that is so good. So I use this all the time. So then Michael's in the car with Ryan, and he's like, man, do you think people are going to throw their hats in the air after my speech? You know, because they do that sometimes in graduations or at naval accounts. And Ryan's like, yeah, this is, I don't, this is, it's just, it's not that. It's not that occasion.

I loved this actual line from Ryan, Jenna made me laugh out loud because he says, you understand no one is graduating. Yes. And you've got to know Ryan is now crapping in his pants because he's like, he has a line prepared if they throw their hats. And this is the line. May your hats fly as high as your dreams. And I have seen people put that on their graduation hats for graduations. I have too. So now we go back to the office.

And this is when we learn about Pam's art show because Roy says he's really excited. We have back-to-back really awkward Pam and Jim talking heads. Yeah. Pam's like, I'm happy to be with Roy. And then Jim's like, yeah, Pam's with Roy. I'm Kevin. moving on. And you're just like, okay, guys. I think he's with Karen. Who did I say? Kevin. No, I didn't. You did. And everyone listening right now just heard you say. Oh, no. Maybe I should take a

sip of my tea. Maybe I need more caffeine this morning. Wake yourself up. You were up late last night. I was, lady. I was. I know, because I woke up to a string of messages from you that were sent at like 12.30 in the morning. I'm so sorry. I didn't think you. Like, what is it? Does it alert you or something? I have my alerts off. No, no. It was when I woke up. I woke up and looked at my phone and I was like, wow, because I woke up really early this morning and I was shocked to see all these messages from you. I was like, wow, Angela's a real early bird today too. Look at us. And I was like, no, they were from late last night. Yeah, they were from really late last night. I wasn't up being an idiot. I was, I was working. Jen and I, you know, we have some other stuff. I didn't say you were up being

an idiot. No, I know. I'm telling the 21 year olds out there. Jen and I have some other stuff guys that were hatching up. And I was working on one of. of them. We have something brewing. I was inspired late last night. Okay. I like it. I've had a cup of tea. I'm waking myself up. I'm not going to call Karen Kevin. So now Pam tells Kelly about her art show, Mindy's performance where she feigns interest and acts like she's going to come is just freaking amazing. It's perfect. Yeah. It's all of us when we've been invited to something that we know we're not going to go to, but we're saying we're going to go to it. Yeah. Oh, I would, yes. Yes. Yes. All of I will absolutely be there.

Yes. Uh-huh. I can't wait. All right. So now Michael arrives on campus. He is so excited. There's just all of these memories coming back to him that he's having that might have occurred if he had ever attended college. That made me sad, by the way.

I made me sad, too. I mean, Michael would have loved college. I think Michael would have been like an RA in the dorm, you know? A hundred percent. And he probably would have been like a life for R.A. They probably would have been like, you can leave now. And he's like, no, we got another batch of students coming in. And they're like, you're not a student anymore.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It's true. Well, we had a fan comment from Amber Morris. Okay. You know that moment when Michael runs up and tries to join the Frisbee game? Yeah. She says, fun fast fact.

A friend of mine, Nathan Blank, played the Frisbee student. at Ryan's school. Michael ran up and stole a frisbee and threw it, and Nathan's line was something like, dude, and he has had nothing but wonderful things to say about his filming day and working with Steve and BJ. Aw, I love that. Yeah, that is very sweet. That scene made me laugh really hard because everything about how Steve approached that frisbee

was wrong. No one should ever grab a frisbee and throw it that way, and it just was so perfect. Well, now we're going to go back to the office, Angela, because now that other card that Brent talked about, the one that says bad in office, is about to go into play. We're in the office. Dwight sees some kind of animal feces. He's on the case. He's like, oh, there's a bird in the rafters, guys. But it's not a bird. It's a bat.

And everyone freaks out. Everyone except Jim and Creed. Oh, yeah, Creed is ready. Angela stops, drops and rolls. Yeah. Stanley leaves. Eventually, Dwight is able to lock the bat in the conference room after a bunch of mayhem. Fan question from Leona Waldridge, Ruth Rodriguez, Heather Flynn, and Abby Mole.

At approximately five minutes, Angela drops and rolls while the bat flies around. Then you barely hear her voice in the background, either talking to herself or praying. Do you know what you're saying? I do. I remember Joss saying to me. me, all right, Angela would totally freak out. And, you know, we talked about what did that look like? And what I, what I dropped to the ground. And I came up with this dropping to the ground and rolling. That's my memory, Jenna, that I dropped to the ground and I decided to roll. And Joss really

liked that. And then I just laid face down on the carpet. And I improvised this. And I said something like, God, this is Angela Martin. Please don't let that stupid thing come anywhere near me. And I just sort of mumbled these prayers. I love it. When I was a child and I would pray, I would lead with God, this is Jenna Fisher. I would lead with an introduction. Same. A hundred percent. Yeah. I was like, well, I need God to know, like, I need him to like key in to who are these prayers for? As I'm receiving these prayers, who are they coming from? So I thought, well, I'll lead with my name. I used to say, Lord God, this is Angela Kinsey. I'm in my bedroom. I am on a street called Kavling in Jakarta, Indonesia. That is in the southern hemisphere.

It's a group of islands. I'm just below the equator. I'm going to do this. Like, I needed him to know where I was. That was some serious location honing right there. You were like, the coordinates are 75 degrees latitude. I'm in my bedroom. It's down the hall on the right. It's a cross from the bathroom. My gosh, I did not get that specific, but I applaud that. Thank you. Then we had more fan questions about this scene. From Rosalie W. Tanner W., Mia F., and Jacob W.

Was the bat that got trapped in the office a real bat? Kintapedia says, Yes, we used a real bat for three scenes. the scene where Dwight stands on Pam's reception desk to look inside the ceiling, a few shots of the bat on the ceiling in the conference room, and for that shot of the bat on the ceiling in the kitchen. Kent hired two bat wranglers to provide us with the bat, Chad Dunn and John Baldwin,

and they put Chad up in the ceiling to hold the bat for that scene where Dwight peers in, the one we were just talking about. Now, the rest of the time when we see the bat flying around, that was all CGI. Kent said he hired Mitch Suskin as our visual effects supervisor. He was great, did a terrific job, and they worked with several production houses to animate the bat. And then there was a third kind of bat that we used, which we will talk about later in the scene with Kate. Yes.

And it was a mechanical bat. Yes. So three different bats. Three different bats. I have a tiny bit of bat trivia. Oh, lay it on me. Okay, here's my little bit of bat trivia from this episode. In the DVD commentary, Rain says he named the bat.

That he was talking to the bat wrangler, and Rain said, what's his name? And the bat wrangler was like, oh, we've never given him a name. And Rain was like, what? I'm going to name him. And so Ray named the bat, Gary. It's Gary, Gary the bat. And we called him Gary all week. week. Well, good job, Gary. Yeah. And now my question is, Rain, if you ever listen to this,

is that Michael Gary Scott? Oh. Oh. Or is it just Gary? Just Gary the bat. Well, I remember shooting this scene, Angela, because they laid out for us this very elaborate trail of how the bat would fly so that we could all react to it because we're reacting to nothing. Nothing is flying through the ceiling. Right. And so it was really choreographed. Like, bat is here, bat is there, bat swoops here, bat goes into conference room. And I, it looks so real.

Yeah. So yeah, guys, we are screaming at and reacting to nothing flying through the office. Yeah, we're not freaking out the bat. We're not screaming at him. I have a few background catches from the scene. Lay them on me. Three minutes, 54 seconds. Pam is sketching a tape dispenser.

Yeah, we don't see it though at the art show. Well, she doesn't have time to watercolor that before the art show. Well, I didn't know. This is just something she's doing on the side? Well, that's what I was going to ask, is she last minute trying to hustle up some more art for her wall? No, she just has a light work day and she's sketching at her desk. Okay. At four minutes, 26 seconds, Rain's butt is right in your face.

Super right in my face. Super right in your face. You're like, Dwight, what are you doing? His butt is right in your face. Yeah. Rain thought that was very fun. I'm sure you did. I'm not going to give you a deep dive on bats.

I am shocked. But me and my kids listen to this amazing podcast. It's four families and kids called Smash Boom Best. And what they do is they have two people debate two different things and then a kid decides which one is better. Oh, cute. And they had a really, it's so cute. So they had one called Bats versus Owls. And if you want to learn some really cool stuff about bats and owls, I recommend this podcast because we loved it.

They eat a ton of mosquitoes, guys, especially in Texas. There's this huge swarm of bats that's responsible for really controlling the mosquito population. And their feces can be used as energy. Uh-oh, I maybe am telling you some bad facts. I know. Now you're telling us bat facts. Toby has a fantastic talking head during all this chaos, and he's like, you know, the simple solution would just be to open a window. But none of our windows open. That's a little creepy. It really is. Well, Angela, then you have a talking head where you say, I can't even say it. This is one of my most quoted lines to me. You know, like when you meet fans of the show and they quote a line to you, this is one of the lines. Strangers would come up to me and be like, poop, is raining from the ceilings. Poop! It's so good. Angela, We had a fan question from Jackie Kay.

How many takes did it require for Angela to get the poop is raining from the ceiling talking head? We did a few because we were playing around with what type of distress was this for Angela? Was she angry, are terrified, scared, annoyed? So we did a few, and the one they picked was where I'm actually concerned and scared. And I have my rain bonnet on. I was going to say, the rain bonnet. is everything. Everything.

Angela, my grandmother had one of those. Yes. My grandmother got her hair done once a week. Same. And it would be the same hairdo. It was set for the whole week. Yeah, that's what the ladies used to do. They used to have their weekly appointment.

They'd get their hair washed and set and then just teased and sprayed. Yeah. And then my grandma had this little rain bonnet folded up in her purse. And if there was even a sprinkle. She would throw. Throw that thing on. Yes. Same with my grandmother.

I have so many memories of her putting it on going to church because there was just maybe a tiny, tiny bit of missed. I was just tickled by this scene because it made me think of my grandmother. And I love that Angela Martin keeps one on hand. She has a rain bonnet ready to go. When I saw it, I thought we need to bring back this rain bonnet. I looked online. There's a lot you can buy now.

And you know I love a good pun. There is a company that makes one. And they call it a hairbrella. I want a hairbrella. Well, Jim calls animal control, and they say they're going to be there by 6 o'clock. But Dwight finds this unacceptable. Yeah. But this is when Jim starts his prank on Dwight.

He's distracted by this bite on his neck, and he's just feeling like really tingly and strangely powerful. Huh. Can't explain it. That's all he has to do. And Dwight fills in all the blanks. Well, now back at the business school, Michael is in like a sound booth watching Ryan sort of give an introduction is what he thinks, right? But Ryan is basically telling the classroom that Dunder Mifflin can't compete with the bigger chains. He thinks this whole business is going to be obsolete in like five years.

And in fact, he thinks the management isn't flexible and able to adapt. And you know what I wrote? What? Ryan, how dare you? You know what this means to Michael. How dare you set him up like that? Look, if that conversation was going to come out in the classroom on its own, fine. But Ryan could have set him up differently. He could have said, you know what, guys, Dunder Mifflin is a small company. It has a harder time competing. But you know what? Management really believes in it. They really believe in like a one-on-one personal connection. And my boss is someone, he's sort of part of a dying breed of a traditional salesman. He's being a total punk in this moment. I think so. Well, then when Michael takes the stage, thinking he's been introduced in a totally different, more flattering way, he enters with his own musical fanfare.

He shows up. He shows up with his boombox. Yeah. He's playing like classical music. That's a bold move. No matter how Ryan set you up, even if Ryan had painted you in an amazing light, to walk in. With your boombox playing, your intro song is really, it's a really bold move. Knowing everything we know about Michael, it's surprising that he didn't show up dressed as a character to inspire the students.

But he has come as himself. But he does bring props. Oh, does he ever? Well, he starts by tearing up someone's book as a way of inspiring them. And then he moves into his candy bar. runner, pun. Then he lets the classroom know there are four kinds of businesses. Number one, tourism. Number two, food service. Number three, railroads. Number four, sales. Number five, hospital and manufacturing, and then also air travel. My favorite is hospital slash manufacturing. I know. So then he moves into his

Candy Bar puns. Oh, yeah. So good. So good. Do you know who wrote this whole scene? Who? Jen Salata. Oh, that makes so much sense.

It's so great, isn't it? Well, we had a lot of people write in. Sammy Saul's Allie Stecklein, Lily McGrath all asked how much of Michael's speech to Ryan's business class was improvised. Guys, basically none of it. It was almost like I went to the script. It's basically all scripted. What you see there in the episode, scripted. Yeah, you know, we didn't get to be there, Jenna.

To be in that classroom, it looked like so much fun. So we asked Brent Forrester, what was it like to shoot those scenes with Michael and the students? And here's what he had to say. Filming the business school scenes with Steve Correll in that lecture hall full of kids was really unforgettable. And I kind of suspected that it was. was going to go great because I knew that Steve had come from this live performance tradition with Second City and he really thrives on that live audience connection. And here was a chance for him to perform both in front of a camera and in front of a live audience of kids who at this

time were all fans of the office. We were in season three at this point. What I remember is the way these takes would go, Steve would perform the scene and then the kids in the audience would have to pretend that they were very unimpressed by his lecture. And so they would sit there in silence. And then the assistant director would call cut. And then the whole group of kids would just burst out into laughter that they'd been repressing through the whole scene. So over and over again, it was Steve performs, silence, cut, huge laugh. Then in the final take of the final scene, Steve performs, there's silence. The AD says cut. That's a wrap for Steve. The audience of Kids burst in the laughter, they stand up and they give him this ovation that went on forever.

I was standing next to Steve at the time, and I saw the tears come to his eyes. It was so beautiful, one of the highlights for sure of my time on the office. Oh, my gosh. I wish I could have been there. I bet it felt so magical to those kids, you know. And to Steve, too, he basically had this whole audience just for himself. And kind of what Brent was talking about, which is that Steve started in. live performance.

Yeah. And I did, too, with theater, Angela, and it was a big adjustment to be sort of acting into a void, which is the camera. You don't get to see your jokes land. You don't get to hear people in their living rooms at home, you know, moving through your performance with you like you do in a theater situation. So it's always fun to get to perform for a live audience. Always, always.

That was my whole, you know, every week doing an improv show. And it is a real energy to have a room like that with you and in the moment with you. It just always kind of makes my skin tingle. All right. So should we go check in at Dundra Mifflin now because Dwight is making a trap for the bat using a box and some glue. Yeah. So poor bad. Terrible.

Yeah. And in the background, Jim and Karen are continuing this prank. Yeah. Karen is doing it, not Pam. I noticed. And I don't, I mean, I don't want to be. Oh, here it comes. I mean, was Pam better at pranking?

You said it. I mean, yes. I feel like Jim and Karen's prank is a little presentational and a little on the nose. And I think that when Pam, Pam pranks Dwight with Jim. It's more subtle and creative. I don't know. Yeah.

Well, you know, it's really hard to have the finesse of, like, drinking your water by the water cooler and, you know, covering up whatever Jim is doing by drinking a little cup of water and looking around. I mean, that is hard. That doesn't come natural. I knew you were going to bring that up. I knew you were going to bring that up because it's the one time that Pam is terrible. at pranking. It makes me laugh. It makes me laugh.

But I'm sorry, her other pranks are very good. But yes, so they have this whole bit where, like, Jim can't pick up her piece of bread. It's white hot. Because it's garlic bread. And it's burning his hands. And she's like, this is ice cold. And then we go into, I mean, it's a little bit of heartbreak in the break room again. But it's Toby. Oh, yeah, it's Toby has some heartbreak. I mean, you guys, Toby is in love with Pam. And here is his opportunity to see her outside of work and maybe dazzle her somehow with his knowledge of art and support her. And it's the same evening of his daughter's play. And he's devastated. And he's even trying to think of a way to get out of going to see his child's play. I know. He's like, it's just we need to support local art.

And what they're doing is not art. Let's be on. And Pam's like, you should go see your child's play. Yes. Yes. Oh. Well, lady, while this is going on, back at the school, they're starting to get into the Q&A part, right? And the students are starting to ask Michael questions.

Things are kind of falling apart. There's a moment, Jenna, I love so much. I love it when Michael says, real business is done on paper, write that down, and they all type. Yeah, it's just a sound of keyboards. Yes, that's a very fun joke in the script, too. Like, it says the students all get out their computers and begin typing. It's so good. So the students start asking him, how would you keep a client from leaving Dunder Mifflin for a nationwide

wide chain. And Michael's like, I don't need to persuade them to come back. They'll just come back eventually when they realize what a debacle it is to go to anyone else. And then the student's like, well, has anyone ever come back? And Michael's like, I don't want them back because they're stupid. Michael is starting to take this personal. He's getting his feelings hurt. And that is when one of the students points out, even your own employee says that Dunder Mifflin is going to be obsolete in five to ten years. Oh. I mean, this is just like a sucker punch.

Michael is so hurt. Yeah. So now, back at the office, Dwight has formed an allegiance with Creed. What I love about this, Jenna, is that Dwight couldn't even get a sentence out. He was like, listen, Creed, I need an alliance. He's like, sure. Like, Creed is just like, Rets to go. He is up for it.

He has a drawer of tools. So does Dwight. They're, I mean, they're meant to be. Yeah. Dwight asks him, can you turn a wooden mop handle into a steak and Creed is like what size? Yeah. He's got a drawer of mung beans and weaponry, apparently. Well, Jenna, I think this is a great time to take a break because when we come back, Dwight and Creed are going to catch a bat.

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He's grabbing some kind of spray. And Kelly's like, do not hurt that bat. It has feelings, and she just makes this big plea for the bat safety. And it comes flying into the main area. And then Kelly immediately screams, kill it, kill it, kill it. Yes, exactly. The bat flies into the little kitchen area. and Kevin closes the door.

So now that bat is trapped inside and Kevin is like, oh my gosh, I am a hero. I am a hero. Kevin's day has gone from a near-death experience to being a hero. He is having a day. Why do I feel like that's like Kevin's every day? Every day Kevin thinks he's a hero over a really mundane thing that's not quite heroic.

You might be right. Yeah, I mean, Kevin thinks he saved everyone in the office, but, guys, not everyone was out of the kitchen. Meredith had gone to the bathroom. Well, we're going to leave her in there for a while because we're going back to Ryan's class. It's getting ugly. It's getting ugly. Michael is grasping at straws. He's so offended. He's taking it personal. And he's just starting all kinds of stuff. Yeah, he's like, guys, this is a David and Goliath situation. But remember, David always wins, and it's just like America. America is facing five Goliaths. Five.

And then he lists them off. It's like Al-Qaeda, global warming, sex predators, mercury poisoning. This is when Michael points out, you know what, Ryan has never made a sale. And he started a fire trying to make a cheesy pita. That made me laugh out loud. And then he said, and everyone thinks he's a tease. Amazing. And then he says, you know what, Ryan doesn't know anything and neither do you. So suck on that and he storms out of the classroom. He is so hurt. If you're Ryan, what are you thinking right now? Because you now know, you rode there with him. You are going to have to ride back to work with this person. That is uncomfortable. Michael tells Ryan, business is always personal, Ryan. I mean, that says everything you need to know about Michael, but we know this. Well, I respect that about him. I respect that about Michael. That business isn't business.

Business is always personal. And that, you know, he's going to say this later. A business is made up of people. I liked it. He tells Ryan, when we get back to the office, you better pack your things. This now starts one of my favorite storylines. Pam is finally at her art show. She's waiting for people to arrive.

And we had a fan question. Alex Lane, Ryan Moberly, and Shelley Jones would like to know what kind of discussions occurred regarding Pam's art show outfit. And here, this little, like, swoopy side ponytail. Pam just is trying to look like she lives, I feel like, in the East Village of New York. Yes, well, they wanted to know if I had any input into what artsy Pam would look like that night. oh yes I did and it was so much fun. Carrie Bennett and I, we had the best time. She came up with this idea of kind of like this beatnik turtle neck with the little jumper over top. And then Kim Ferry and I thought, what is the hairstyle that coordinates with this little hipster outfit? And we thought low side pony. And I think it works. It's not just. just any low side pony though. It's got a little bit of curl. It's kind of relaxed. Yeah. Yeah. It's smoothed out. It's not her like frizzy curly hair that we normally see her with. She is ready to walk out of that art show into 1960 something. It's so sweet. I absolutely loved it. And you can see all of Pam's art behind her. It's a series of watercolors of, you know, simple, ordinary items and things, which I think. kind of goes to that whole theme of the show and Pam finding beauty and ordinary things. And I liked the juxtaposition that, you know, Pam's wall is like a coffee mug and a stapler and a vase holding flowers and, you know, a painting of Dunder Mifflin.

And then just to the left, whoever's art display that was is like aliens or like an alien robot. I'm not really sure what it is. Well, we had a fan question from Molly Warner who says, According to Dunderpedia, Joss Whedon was not satisfied with the original art that was produced for Pam at the art show and that new art had to be made. Can you clarify what that original art was and why it had to be changed? Well, we asked Brent about this, and here's what he told us. What I remember most about Joss Whedon's directing of this episode was a crisis that happened around one of the watercolor drawings that appears in Pam's art show.

Now, these watercolor drawings were created by the art department at the office, and they appear in the background of all of the shots of Jenna. And, you know, as background items, they might not seem that important. But when we got on set, there was one drawing that Joss just strongly felt that Pam's character would not have done. It was a watercolor drawing of a church. and he just felt it was out of character for her. And you have to imagine when you're shooting a television episode,

the time pressure is so intense. You do not have time to stop and mess around. And Joss, however, felt so passionately about this picture that he stopped production and said, I need a new picture. I would like a picture of a stapler. That's what I think that Pam would have drawn. And like I say, the whole production shut down.

They brought the executive producer Greg Daniels to set. they had a big discussion about it, but Joss would not back down. And we were on location. We didn't have the art department with us. Who is going to draw a picture of a stapler? So the assistant director, we were on a location at a university, the assistant director went into a classroom full of art students and said, is anyone here able to draw a watercolor of a stapler? And they pulled some young woman out, and they paid her 50 bucks or something, and she just cranked out this picture of a stapler that you see in the background of all of Pam's shots. And afterwards, I was riding back in the van, you know, to home base with Joss. And I said, Joss, what was all that about?

Why did you get so intense about this? And he said, Brent, in my experience, as a director, every single time that I have felt strongly about some detail of the shoot, and I have allowed myself to be persuaded out of it because of time pressure, 100% of the time, I have intensely regretted making that choice. And so now I understand that I should never compromise when I feel something strongly as a director. It's a great lesson. In my limited experience as a director, I've never forgotten it. I think it's a really good lesson for all of us as artists. Stick to your guns. If you feel it passionately, you're probably right. I have to say, Angela, the watercolor that stood out to me the most when we first flash up to her wall was that stapler. Yeah, me too.

It was absolutely what Pam would have done, because Pam, we already established she's sort of drawing things in her world and she sketched a tape dispenser. It would make sense to me. And then, you know, Jim, I feel like that stapler also represents Jim. Jim put that stapler in Dwight's jello, mold, you know? I never thought of that. Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought Pam painted that stapler because she was thinking of Jim. I just got chills. Well, I got a little lowdown on the Dunder-Mifflin painting from Kentapedia. He said that that is not actually a watercolor, but it was a photograph of our building that they manipulated to look like a watercolor. Oh, like just some fancy kind of graphics. Yeah. So no one ever did a from blank page watercolor of the building. You know,

that time, a while back, Jenna invited me to do a wine and canvas night. Yes. And it was so fun. It was like part of a mall, like, but you entered from outside, right? Yeah. It was a mall in Pasadena. Yeah. And we went and you kind of just sort of pick a random night to go.

And I wasn't really sure what we were painting. And then we found out we were painting cats on a fence at nighttime. Yes. And I still have mine. My husband loves it so much. He hung it by where he feeds the cats. So the cats see the cats on the fence as they eat their dinner. It's kind of funny.

But I became sort of really interested in this wine and canvas night. We were talking about doing another one, maybe inviting a few friends. I found that they do wine and canvas and everyone can paint the Dunder-Mifflin building. Oh my gosh. That is amazing. Wouldn't you want to do that? I would love to do that. Angela, I think it would be really weird if you and I showed up at a wine and canvas

and painted Dunder Mifflin. There's like a room of people. Like you sign up. We showed up there were probably 30 people there. And we each had a little seating assignment. We had our canvas and our paints. And then they pass around wine. And the teacher is at the front.

She had a headset on, remember, so we could all hear. So you and I would be in a room with like 30 other people, total strangers. I totally remember it because my daughter has always from the time she was born loved cats. She loves cats, and I knew she was going to love this painting. And I didn't want my son to feel left out when I came home from my painting night. So on my canvas, I added a little spaceship out in the sky because he loved outer space. So I was like, okay, well, this will bring him into this painting. And we have it in our playroom.

I love it. up. But I do. I want to do a wine and canvas night and I want to paint Dundermifflin, Jenna. I can't say I want to do that. You don't want to paint Dunder Mifflin? I know. Well, you have it, don't you? You own it. I already have a painting. I was going to leave that for the end. You own it. But also, Jenna, what if your painting was horrible? I hope your attempt at painting Dunder Mifflin. No, I'm kidding. Well, I will say this, too. My daughter's gotten really into watercolor painting.

And so it's very funny to me that I, as Jenna, am now sitting around every day doing watercolor paintings like my character Pam did. And I think I've gotten really good at doing flowers. I've actually watched some tutorial video. Well, maybe I'll watch a tutorial video on painting Dunder Mifflin and I'll... There must be one. I'll paint it and show it to you. there you go. Okay, sorry, where are we, lady?

Well, back at Dundra Mifflin, Meredith is still hiding from the bat and everyone is just leaving for the day. Everyone's like, bye. Crete is like, later, Mary Beth. Yes, people wanted to know if that was improvisation, no, that was scripted. Well, there are a few deleted scenes that happen right here, Jenna,

that are worth mentioning. One is that there's a few cutaways that they didn't have time for of Meredith trying to leave the bathroom and then seeing the bat screaming and going back in. Oh, okay. You know, so kind of playing up the fact

that she really does feel trapped and she really is scared. And then there's a scene of Dwight looking through the blinds and screaming at her. So there's this sort of like buildup of this moment. And then the other scene that I love

that's deleted is as everyone's leaving for the day, leaving Meredith trapped, Angela and Kelly exit together. And Angela says, says, just goes to show you the power of prayer. And Kelly says, you prayed for this? And Angela says, in a general sense. Oh, my goodness. So did I pray that Meredith need some kind of reckoning? And it's going to happen. Wow. I know. I guess Angela maybe prayed that she would be scared into better behavior. Yes. And this is, she feels the answer to her prayer. Better lifestyle choices, Meredith. So now we have the scene, the scene of Dwight going in to capture this bat. And it ends up landing on Meredith's head.

So he has to put a trash bag over her head with the bat inside. And kind of like wrestle her around. Insanity. Well, you know we got a lot of mail about this one, Angela. Monica Sweeney, Jessica Bone, Ashley McGetrick, Aaron Westra, and Raphael Bressel Smith, and, I mean, just countless others, said, the scene with Dwight trapping the bat on Meredith's head looked so real. How did they do it?

Well, we asked Kate to tell us all about the scene, and she told us she worked with both a real bat and a mechanical bat. Here's what else she had to say. Yes, we had a real bat with like five handlers. I wish I had five cameras Yes but we were not letting any noise around The bat you couldn't I couldn't scream

So even though I was screaming I was acting like I was screaming When I was shooting because don't upset the bat Something about the sonar And then we had this motorized thing that I had of my head We actually did have a stunt double But she I don't really think they used her And maybe one little shot with her in it one cutaway

but I did all of it the motorized thing on the head it was like sort of like this fluttery thing was almost like a headband with a motor and then there was a human being with a

like a puppety thing with a stick he was on his knees and he was trying to put the stick up my skirt before he introduced himself which whatever I mean a little out of order and yes

I could breathe with a bag over my head. We figured it out. It was fine. So I was acting my app. And it was one of the most fun scenes I got to do with Rain because he is an amazing actor and he goes for it, man. So but I'm not afraid. I have never been afraid of Rayne Wilson or Dwight Trute. So that is, that's it. Same bad time. Same bad channel. I don't want you to say that for us. Yeah. I guess Phil Shea got this mechanical back. like a battery operated Halloween toy and they put it on a headband on her head because it really does look like there are wings flapping inside that bag. It was what a good, just old fashioned

movie magic moment. Yeah. It was like some new technology and old tech all came together. Yes. I have a memory, Jenna, of like Kim Ferry and Phil Shea working on that headband. Like he, I remember it in her hair and makeup area. Do you? Like, she was, like, sort of, like, flossing with it and stuff. She had it on one of those little mannequins. Yeah.

And he was in there with the little battery operated controls explaining how it would work, and they would put a bag over it, and they would test it. I remember that, too. We must have been in there in the trailer when they were doing that. I have that same memory. Oh, man. And then on top of it, there was a guy with a stick and a puppet. My God.

What was that about? No, I know. I mean, Kate said, like, he had to put a stick up her skirt. Like, maybe they had all these different ways the bat might be under the bag. Anyway, well done, everyone. It was a team effort. But I thought that scene was fantastic. Well, the other thing she said in her clip, too, Angela, was about how she wasn't allowed to actually scream.

Yes. So when I heard that, I remembered that from our big group scene with the bat. Yes, I did too. When Rain sort of, like, pokes the ceiling up, the real bat is up. there. That shot was the real bat. And we all had to be silent. And I remember we had to be super silent as they brought the bat in and placed the bat. And then when they removed the bat before we started doing all of our screaming and reacting to nothing. Yeah. That happens a lot with animals. I worked with a squirrel where you had to be super quiet around the squirrel. Really?

Yeah. No sudden movements around the squirrel. Okay. So now we're back at Pam's art show and Roy has come and he's brought his brother, yes. And, um, and, you know, Roy has just regressed, right? He says all of this stuff that is so insulting. He's like, oh, hey, look at this. Like no one else showed up, but I came and I brought someone. That's pretty cool. Well, you know, I don't know if it's Roy regressing or is he,

just trying in his very lame attempt here to say, Pam, look, you know, I show up for you. I know, but like, what is he needs a big congratulations for showing up to his girlfriend's art show? Like, you're doing the bare minimum. Roy at his real true self is going to make the most basic amount of effort and expect that to be enough and even applauded. Roy is the type of man who needs to be thanked profusely for doing everyday chores like the dishes and taking out the trash as if he's done something extraordinary. But really, you're just contributing to the partnership of running a household. Yeah. I changed a light bulb.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. Meanwhile, Roy is not probably thanking Pam for everything she's doing to contribute to running the household. That's the dynamic that Pam has to look forward to if she follows through on this. Well, I definitely think this art show night, she's raw, she's feeling vulnerable, and she needs Roy to be more of a support and he's just not able. And I think that's the reality. Roy is going to be a great partner to someone else that doesn't need the same things from him that Pam needs.

Well, as he's leaving, he tells her this famous line, which is that her art is the prettiest art of all. the art. Thank you, Roy, for that nugget. So I do have a little post-it and I wrote on it, I'm sorry, is this some Gil sass? Yes, some Gil sass. Yes, because Oscar and Gil show up to the art show. They don't know that Pam has walked up behind them. And Gil is really kind of going off on your art. He's like, listen, real art takes courage and honesty and this is motel art. And Oscar says Those aren't Pam's strong points. I think all of that hits her so harsh. I think it's even more powerful for Pam to hear because in this moment, she's forced to hold up a mirror to her life.

And part of that courage and honesty is finally boldly saying, Roy is not my person. Well, Angela, earlier in this episode, Pam. declares that being back with Roy shows maturity and dignity, remember? And she's like, oh, I hope that didn't sound braggy. But when she hears this from Gill and Oscar, she's being confronted with the fact that getting back with Roy does not show dignity or honesty or courage. Yeah. And I feel like it's one of these beautiful moments on our show where, you know, on the one hand,

we're talking about her art, but on the other hand, for Pam, it's like this self-realization about her choices in her life. Well, you kind of think that it can't get lower for Pam because her only two visitors have been Roy and his brother and Oscar and Gill. And then she's standing there alone. The evening is winding down. She starts to take her art off the wall, But then Michael walks in and we hear Pam Casso and you're like, oh no, oh no, is this going to be good or bad? He's started off with Pam Casso. Yeah, it's like, wow. And I think that's Pam's reaction. Pam's like, oh, Michael, you came. But it's kind of like, I don't even know if I can do this. But Michael is immediately just so taken with her art. And some of this is because of what he's been through today. You know, Michael doesn't know what Pam's been through and Pam doesn't know what Michael's been through. But in this moment, these two human beings are coming together and they heal one another.

Yeah. Yeah, they're coming together a little hurt and broken from the day. And this is such a beautiful scene, Jenna. I just love all the beats of it. I love how excited Michael is. I love how moved Pam is by his excitement, and he sees that her car and his car, she painted both of them. And it's just such a sweet scene. We had a lot of people write in, Mary Ruff, Soraya Garlip, Madison Schnurple, Stacey Dull, and Layla Baroka, all asked,

Jenna, how did you prepare for the level of emotion you had to play in this scene when Michael shows up and tells Pam that he's proud of her? did you stay in that emotion during the breaks and if not was it hard to get back between takes guys i will tell you i didn't have to prepare much for this because my steen partner was steve korel and the relationship that i had with steve in real life and i think angela this is a little bit for you too he was someone i looked at up to in the way that you look up to a mentor or a parent and I admired him so much. So just to have him look at me and say, I'm proud of you, I just started crying. Yeah.

His sincerity and his truth in saying it, he's a wonderful actor and it was easy. Easy. He's just such a special person. So to have moments like that with him, the emotion is pretty ready to go. I did this appearance on Busy Phillips talk show. On Busy Tonight. I remember. Yeah. And it was, it was like around my birthday. And she had secretly called people from the office to send in gifts for me. And you sent in a shirt with a loaf of bread on it. Here's the crazy thing. She reached out to me. She was like, Angie, I want to do this. What do you think? I said, I am literally online buying her a t-shirt with a loaf of bread on it.

And she was like, oh, my God. Can we have that? So it was this total surprise. And I get all these presents and this whole time that I've been doing this talk show appearance, the entire time, there has been a giant box sitting on the set for like 20 minutes, right? 20 minutes. Easily. And at the end of the segment, she says, well, we have one last gift for you.

And it's this giant box. And the box pops open and Steve Correll pops out of the box. First of all, I was so scared because I wasn't expecting a human being to come out of the box. And then as soon as I saw that it was Steve, I just like immediately burst into tears. He had sat in a box for like 20 minutes while I droned on giving this. interview just to surprise me for my birthday. I don't know. It's like that's Steve, you guys. It was such a just generous, like, kind, loving things to do. So you just have to, that's how he's always been. So in this moment, shooting the scene with him or any emotional scene with him,

it's all just right there. I love that so much, Jenna. I hope people can still watch that because that moment is so sweet and you start to cry and Steve is smiling and you guys hug and you say, how long have you been in there? And he's like, for a while because they had to set that box before you came out. Yes. So he was there before the interview and through the whole interview. Yes. Well, we asked Brent about the art show and how they created this moment between Michael and Pam. And Jenna, you might want to buckle in because get ready for a love fest from Brent Forrester. When people ask me, what is my favorite episode of TV that I have ever written? I always say business school. And partly it's because the episode is so nicely designed. It's got that big

comedy C story with the bat and the vampire. It's got a big comedy performance story with Michael going to business school. But above all, it has this tremendous emotional story with Pam's art show. I think that what is happening in Pam's art show is one of those wonderful coincidences of the experience of the writer, me, and the actress, Jenna, coming together. If you try to be an artist of any kind, a writer, an actress, any artist at all, you have to believe in yourself so profoundly. And inevitably, there will come moments of failure where you're believing. leaf in yourself is dashed. And it is so painful and unforgettable when it happens to a human being. And I think it's really what Jenna is expressing at the end of this episode. If you read

her tremendous book, an actor's life, which is both an instructional manual and a riveting autobiography, you will learn that Jenna Fisher spent seven years trying to break into the business of acting. At the end of seven years, she felt that she had failed, she packed up her car, and she decided she was going to return home to Missouri. She was only persuaded to stay by her acting coach and her manager who said, please, Jenna, spend one more season trying out for TV, and that's when she got the office. But that experience of terrible defeat is something that I believe she never forgot,

and it's what she's expressing at the end of this episode. Steve Corell says that when he watches business school, that moment where Michael Scott hugs Pam and there's a close on her face, Steve says he can see five different emotions play through Jenna's face in that performance. It is heartbreak and it is gratitude. It is just the whole human experience wrapped up in a single take. It's a tremendous performance and it's part of why I will always be so grateful that I got to write this episode for one of my favorite actresses of all time, Jenna Fisher. Oh my gosh, Brent.

What are you going to say after that? That is the most beautiful thing ever. Like, Jenna, that is so lovely. You know what? I am going to save that and I'm going to listen to that anytime I am having a bad day because that really, thank you. That lifts me up. Jenna, I have been at all of your big life moments. Really, I have.

I have heard toast and speeches about you and that's probably the best. I was at your wedding. Brent should have given a toast at your wedding. Clearly. Clearly. Oh, my gosh. He like recapped your book and your whole life experience. And then what Steve said was so beautiful.

I mean, Jenna, Brent was going on for so long. He ran out of air. Did you hear at the end? He had to go, he was so passionate talking about you. Everything he said is true. There's one thing. I never actually packed up my car and said I was going to leave. but I did say I called my managers after seven years of failures and said, I've decided to become a vet technician.

I had signed up. It was a two-year program. I'd been doing some animal rescue, and I was going to do it full time. And I wanted my vet tech license so that I could administer medicines. And so I was like, I'm out of here. And it is true that my manager and my acting coach sort of yelled at me. And they were like, what did you think an acting career was? You thought it was just a bunch of ups, just a bunch of successes?

No, it's little successes followed by many failures. This is what being an actor is. And it's true what Brent says too, which is that I did channel a lot of those struggling years into my performance for Pam. I literally sat at a reception desk and dreamed of being an artist. I have done that. I did it for seven years. So I deeply, deeply felt Pam's longing.

Yeah. Brent also sent us in an audio clip where he discussed just the overall story for this episode with Pam and Michael and why he thinks that it resonates so much with people. And here's what he had to say about that. I remember before I was sent off to write this episode, I got into a big debate with Greg Daniels, the show creator, about the story of Pam's art show. and I at the time thought of myself as a sophisticated storyteller, and I took the position that this story did not work. Because, I said to Greg, a story is about a protagonist, pursuing a goal, overcoming obstacles,

and in the end, accomplishing that goal. And in this case, Pam's goal is to be respected as an artist. But when Michael Scott buys her painting at the end, it doesn't resolve her problem because she does not respect Michael Scott's taste. I'm so facto, her problem is not resolved, and the story does not work. And I remember Greg saying to me, Brent, this is a sophisticated story with a sophisticated ending. It would be like this.

Suppose you, Brent, were the protagonist and your goal was to impress me with your storytelling abilities. But you said something so stupid in the breaking of this story that I fired you and sent you home. You went home, miserable, not having accomplished your goal, but your family dog came up to you, cuddled with you on the couch, and put its head on your lap. This would be an emotional resolution and consolation, even though. your stated goal was not achieved. Greg was so right about this, and it was so funny the way he put it. You know, Greg, his body of work is characterized by these sophisticated endings, where the character does not get what they think they want, but still gets what they

emotionally need at the end. And it's part of the reason why I'm so grateful to have worked on this show and worked with Greg Daniels, who taught me so many priceless lessons about storytelling. Ugh, Jenna, we both feel like we know Greg. We've known him a long time. But when I hear these stories from the writer's room, it's this whole new perspective on Greg. And man, I am just more and more impressed with him in how he can convey a thought or explain the dynamics between human relationships. And he's so flippin smart. It's so true. And it is such a sophisticated way to tell a story. I mean, they've written songs about that idea. You don't get what you want, but you get what you need. Yeah. And that is what happens in this story. Yeah. It's so layered.

Pam and Michael heal one another and give one another what they need. Yeah. Someone to say, I'm proud of you and someone to show Michael, I guess, what the power of a piece of paper is. That's what he says. It's so sweet. Well, and also just to be appreciated, Pam really appreciated that he came there. And it's a reminder for Michael that, you know, business is people and you can't cancel people. That's right.

We had a question from Amber, Julie, Aubrey, and Roe hit. Did anyone end up keeping the picture of the office that Pam made? Yep, me. We talked about that in Casino Night with John. Yes. That I got to keep that and I have it hanging down in my entryway of my house. And a little thank you to Phil Shea for making that happen for Jenna. Well, we wrap up this episode, finding out that Ryan has not lost his job, that Michael has just moved him to the annex, which is such a punishment.

Because now he's going to have to share a desk pod with Kelly. And Kelly is so excited. She's so thrilled. And here's a little tidbit from the DVD commentary. Brent said he went into Mindy's office and he said, Mindy, here's this scene and he pitched the scene to her and she began to just improvise as Kelly

how Kelly would respond to this news. And Brent just wrote it all down verbatim. Oh, he was like, he said Mindy is so great at channeling Kelly that you literally could go in and pitch to her a Kelly moment and she'd be like, oh, she would totally say this. I love that. Well, we had some fan questions

about this. Haley, Fortino, Jillian, Audrey, and Mariel all asked, was Michael moving Ryan to the annex as a punishment a way to get Ryan back out of the bullpen so that he wasn't as visible and could be in the writer's room some more? I'm sure. Yes. Yeah. Because now our three writers were all back there, Paul, BJ, and Mindy. No, it was very smart. Well, Jenna, there are some deleted scenes, you know, in this episode that are really fantastic. I haven't talked too much about them, but there are two that are sort of interesting, and I thought I'd share a little bit with you about that. And we had some fan questions. So here's the first one. And Ryan Moberly, Jamie Kearns, Ali Giancarlo, and Jamie Miller all wrote in, and they said, in the deleted scenes, Karen attempts

to rip down Pam's art show flyer in the kitchen. All right. They say, I know. I know. there are so many people that say that Karen didn't deserve all of this hate because her only crime was not being Pam, but can we please discuss? Yes. So what happens, Angela? Okay, well, Karen is in the kitchen. There's a flyer for Pam's art show, and she looks around and she reaches up to grab it to pull it off the wall. And then I think Oscar walks in and she just quickly just leaves. and we don't really know anything more than that, just little glimpse.

But, you know, everyone in the office knew about it. I don't know that she was being that vindictive. Maybe she just wanted to see the details. But you could say maybe she didn't want Jim to see it. Maybe she didn't want Jim to want to go. Maybe she wasn't being vindictive. I mean, she was going to take it off the wall. I think this was a good cut.

because I don't like this side of Karen. I'm glad that this was cut from her story. Me too, because Karen was already so vilified. She didn't need to lean into it, you know? Yeah, I agree. So I think that was a good scene to have deleted. Now, here's another deleted scene that Kate Flannery and I talked about, and Susan Lewis and Kyle Meeker wrote in and said,

there's a deleted scene where Meredith is telling Oscar a joke about Pam and Roy. The joke is almost all bleeped out. What was the joke? Oh, no. This is like us doing laundry and betrayal. I know, I know. So I said, Kate, what was that all about? I went and watched the scene and the deleted scene is Angela's in the kitchen and Meredith's in there and she's like, hey, why did Pam leave the wedding with Roy?

And I'm just like, would you stop it? And I leave the kitchen. I am not going to entertain this. Then Oscar comes out of the bathroom. Meredith goes, hey, Oscar, why did Pam leave the wedding? bedding with Roy. And Oscar's like, Meredith, I'm not going to get into this. I think gossip is like harmful. And then Meredith can't even contain herself. And she starts to tell the rest of her joke. And she kind of does a gesture with her hands by her crotch area. And it just is like, because Roy, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep.

And then Oscar's like, gross. And Meredith cackles and says, I know. And leaves the kitchen. And Kate said that in the script, all it said was Meredith tells an off-colored joke to Oscar. That's it. And it didn't say anything else. Is that true, Jenna? Yes, I checked the script and it says, Meredith has one scripted line. Then the script says, Meredith says Roy, then long bleeped sentence while gesturing in an unusual way ambiguously that could be totally nasty or could be something quite different. Hard to tell,

really, there's no visible lip flap. And then the script says, Oscar says, that's disgusting. So I said, Kate, do you remember what you said? And she said, no, I don't remember. She said, but, you know, I remember I just wanted to try to shock them. And my dad owned a bar in Philadelphia. And so I just tried to throw out some of those bar jokes I had heard. I love that. I love that. Well, guys, that was business school. Yes. Thank you so much to Brent for sending an audio clips and Kate as well for telling us everything about that bat. Yes. And I also want to tell you guys, Brent is an amazing teacher and he's currently teaching an online class called Writing the TV Comedy Script. It is such a bargain. So if you have like an idea for a TV pilot or a TV show that you've been dying to write, you have to check out this class. You can find it at brentforrester.com. Well, thanks you guys so much for listening. We hope you have a fantastic week. Yeah, we'll see you next week for some cocktails. Ooh. Oh, Jenna. One last question for you. What? Do you know what Pan's art show was called?

What? Artists for art. Did Roy write that? He did. We'll see you next week, guys. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies' Second Drink. This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Our executive producer is Cassie Jirkins, and our audio engineer and associate producer is Molly Nugent. Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. Thank you. ...he... ...and... ...you know. ...and... ...the... ...you know.